Jonathon Blow: The Witness Uses 5GB RAM, Calls Xbox One DDR3 RAM “Cheap”

the witness ps4

The Witness which was announced at the PS4 reveal conference supposedly wants 5GB RAM, according to creator Jonathon Blow.

In a series of tweets, he explains why that is so and also calls the DDR3 RAM inside Xbox One something that could be acquired for really cheap. He also wonders why Microsoft went with only 8GB when they could have afforded much more.

Blow has been tearing apart Microsoft in the past few weeks, calling them out on their claims of increasing servers to 300k and accusing the company of lying. His RAM comments do make a lot of sense when you think about it. Killzone: Shadow Fall, for example, used only 3GB RAM when it was showed at the PS4 reveal conference.

  • Furious Francis

    Nitendo

  • Furious Francis

    And Nintendo made games like Mario Galaxy, Metroid Prime 3, Donkey Kong, Punch Out, Zelda ect on Wii with 88 MB of RAM…… Just goes to show how much more talented Nintendo is compared to American developers who are bitching about 8 GB of RAM

    • Nintendo Fan 4 Lif3

      Yea, that’s why on Tuesday when they show their future Wii U lineup of games, they will impress yet again because they will do more with what little they have compared to everyone else while the majority only hopes to accomplish as much as Nintendo has done.

      • ppSucks

        Nintendo has been sticking to their same accomplishments for decades. We’re all waiting for something new. We don’t need another Mario game.

    • Grant Abbott

      I kinda disagree with “American Developers” comment. Have you not seen Retro? They made Metroid Prime 1 on the gamecube with like 40 MB of ram. Hell Metroid Prime looks like at least Early Xbox 360 games.

    • usrev

      look at all the games that have like 2-3 objects on screen at a time. wake me up when skyrim, hell even morrowind runs on the wii.

  • Nick Calandra

    How’s he tearing Microsoft apart? He’s simply surprised by the fact the Microsoft didn’t spend more on RAM. Stories like this is what gives games journalism a bad name.

    • Gamechup

      Did you miss all his comments about how cloud processing is a lie?

      Edit, here you go:

      http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=568401

      • ppSucks

        He never stated that cloud processing is a lie. He was correctly stating the clear facts; that cloud processing cannot be used to make the Xbone “3 times more powerful” as Microsoft has been trying to spoon-feed the nitwits out there; who lack any form of sense.

        • Grant Abbott

          Depends what you mean by power. Obviously it can’t make the hardware more powerful nor is the bandwidth there to really take advantage of it now. Wait 5 years and a lot of games could be using cloud computing to do extremely complicated computing via server.

          • usrev

            the only thing you can put on the cloud are time insensitive tasks, which are almost not used at all for games. the cloud could be used to simulate virtual economies, and the game while you are not playing, but that is about it and with state of decay, the latter is already done.

          • Morris Buel

            yeah, it’s all database stuff that doesn’t “add” processing power to the box, it could easily be done on the box in the background just as easily, since it’s not time sensitive.

          • Morris Buel

            NO…

            Think about in terms of even compressed data (which will take your CPU time to compress and decompress) to transfer the 3 GB of data that Killzone is dealing with for RENDER targets to the server would take DAYS.

            ADDITIVE Cloud processing is an absolute FARCE.

    • gamerguy

      You should see all the other stuff he has been saying mate….

  • Michael Clanton

    you cant compare rame use by a open system like a PC, and a closed system such as the x1 and ps4. That is also one of the reasons they dont need all the so called power of a pc…developers dont have to consider the min, but they know the uniform specs of the x1 and ps4.

    • Dakan45

      wrong

  • XFistsClenchedX

    There is absolutely zero reason that game should be using 5 GB of RAM.

    • http://www.therealgamers.net/ Matt Clarmont

      And how do you know this? Perhaps after a few good indie titles, Blow and Co. are stepping up their game and utilizing those kinds of RAM numbers to produce their next one.

      I took that as “wow these guys are really serious about trying to make The Witness a great game” not “there’s no way those guys would improve upon their last effort” :

      • XFistsClenchedX

        Because this would make the Witness one of the most RAM intensive games of all time. On PC, Far Cry 3 requires 2 GB of RAM. Skyrim requires 2 GB of RAM. Minecraft requires 2GB of RAM. Crysis 3 requires 2 GB (3GB on Vista). I’m having difficulty finding any PC games that requires more than 2GB. Planetside 2 is the only one I can find and it is known for being poorly optimized. Even the PS4 doesn’t have enough RAM to run Planetside 2 at the recommended PC settings.

        • SykeMed

          The only reason why these games you mentioned aren’t using more RAM is because they are built for current gen consoles, which inherently are 32 bit systems. Any 32 bit application is restricted to a max of ~3.7GB of memory allocation.

          Also these numbers you mentioned depend on many things. The size of the textures you are utilizing, the geometry, draw distance, AI, quality of sound etc… with next gen you can expect these to increase dramatically. Remove the pretty foliage and trickery and even a beautiful game like Far Cry 3 is simplisitc in it’s behind-the-scenes graphics fidelity, AI, world design the list goes on. Add to that new/future post processing techniques, tessellation… and you do start to have a need for more RAM.

          That is why next gen consoles (and newer PC’s, duh) are 64bit architectures and can utilise way more RAM to do all those ‘cool’ things. 8GB is the bare minium and even that will likely become a drag in few years… just like 256MB is now compared to average gaming PC’s 8-16GB of RAM. Current PC CPU’s and GPU can easily support that much memory bandwidth. Which in turn would equal much more freedom for the developers and more importantly much, much better games.

          Finally add to that the fact this RAM has to be shared between both the CPU and GPU in a console compared to a GPU and CPU having their own discrete memories and you can easily see how even a next gen indy title needs twice the memory of a ‘standard’ current gen game.

          • XFistsClenchedX

            You’re telling me that Crysis 3 was developed for consoles? I know for a fact that the lead platform for Crysis 3 was the PC. The recommended specs for Crysis 3 called for 4GB of RAM, which is 1 GB less than the XBOX One has. The XBOX One is going to be just fine for RAM. All of the games I mentioned are games that run and look pretty good on current gen consoles that have a measly 512MB of RAM. RAM isn’t a big concern.

          • http://www.therealgamers.net/ Matt Clarmont

            Everyone’s a techy lol Look Idunno how much RAM any game NEEDS to run. I can assume though. I assume that the 2-3GB those games require are minimums and can utilize more on higher settings. Average computers, even when Crysis 3 was released, didn’t have 8GB of RAM and they still need to sell PC games to a mass market so they turn a profit. Those restrictions have been lifted to 8GB now with next gen consoles and I imagine PC game development will follow suit and in many cases SURPASS that limit.

            I also assume that an actual game developer knows more about this subject than YOU DO. I’m not talking shit, just some logical deduction :p

          • XFistsClenchedX

            The new Killzone for PS4 uses 3 GB of RAM and Jonathon Braid’s downloadable game requires 5GB. It sounds like the Witness is either optimized poorly or he made some really bad decisions on how the game would be implemented.

          • http://www.therealgamers.net/ Matt Clarmont

            Perhaps. I choose to believe it’s cuz The Witness is gonna be bigger than we knew. And I shall hold onto that hope no matter HOW MUCH it floats lol

          • XFistsClenchedX

            I read that he chose to do the entire island as one area. I think that is why it requires way more RAM than it should. I don’t see why this was necessary.

          • lolgg

            Matt, please just stop FFS

          • LBDz

            Example from NeoGaf “Anyone screaming “bah lazy devs not optimizing their code” just don’t get it.
            I can fit eight people into a Mini Cooper if I absolutely had to,
            stacking and squeezing them on the floors and seats, but if they could
            ride in a passenger van instead, why the hell would I still try to get
            them to fit in a Mini Cooper sized amount of space inside the van? I
            could just pile them in, drive my van, and be so much more comfortable”

          • slims_post

            You example is all well and good but it does have any relevance in this case as Blow said the game “needs” 5GB and claimed MS were cheap for “only” using 8GB of DDR3.
            Whenever Blow opens his mouth, crap comes out, whatever you think of him as a person or as a programmer it’s hard to deny the fact that his mouth rules over his head.

          • Grant Abbott

            I looked at the game, it doesn’t look anywhere near as good or as system demanding as Killzone. Honestly The Witness looks like a PS3 game.

          • LBDz

            Killzone Sahdow Fall used 4.7GB in total ram for the Demo.

          • XFistsClenchedX

            http://www.psu.com/a019414/

            To be more specific, the visually-striking demo gobbled up 3072MB (3GB) for video resources powering the demo, while 1,536MB were allocated to system resources. A further 128GB were shared between the two.

          • Dakan45

            4.7gb actually. Missinformation, it uses 3gb only for vram.

          • usrev

            or he has the ability to not worry about optimizing since there is so much wiggle room on the system.

          • Grant Abbott

            Not to mention games are going to be installed on the hard drive (no worries about having to design your game for non-hard drive sku) which worse case scenario they can use some Virtual Ram and just have slightly longer loading times. Still personally I’d love to see them cut the size of the hard drive down some (or have multi skus) and put in 16 Gigs of Ram just in case like they doubled the 360′s ram at the last minute.

          • Dakan45

            Crysis 3 had small maps that stream and recycle resources, so yeah it was for consoles, on pc it has better graphics, crysis 3 runs lower than low setting on consoles.

            “The recommended specs for Crysis 3 called for 4GB of RAM,”

            Only 3.25gb can be used in games due to x32 exes, the 4gb are actually 2gb used by the os and 2 for the game.

          • Morris Buel

            Your not going to get through to the PC guys Dakan. They don’t understand the spec increase that is about to happen for PC games to remain in parity with console games.

          • Dakan45

            I am a pc guy and consoles are TRASH

            1.6ghz cpu? BUHAHAHAHAHAH

            midrange card and just how much ram is available to games? 4.5, so you got about 2gb for video and 3 for cpu.

            More or less, its riddicusly weak.

          • Bill E Weaver

            Plus Crytek is making RYSE for XB1, and it looks amazing!

          • extermin8or2

            um arguably the sharing is actually better, the tasks can be switched between whichever is idle etc much faster, as opposed to a longer transfer loop if tasks have to move from one to another in a pc with memory for the gpu and cpu seperated…

          • Dakan45

            This guy knows waht he is talking about.

        • ppSucks

          Planetside 2 recommended specs are 6GB. PS4 has 7GB available (after 1 used for the OS; unlike the Xbone which utilizes 3 GB for the OS).

          So you are fairly wrong; the PS4 does have enough RAM. I’m not going to even attempt to break down into simple terms for you to grasp what GDDR5 means, on top of that.

          • XFistsClenchedX

            You only serve to prove my point further. You proved that even a poorly optimized game like Planetside 2 doesn’t exceed the available RAM of the X1 by much and you also proved that Planetside only leaves only 1 GB of wiggle room on the PS4, which isn’t much.

          • extermin8or2

            Planetside wont use that much, the bandwidth is higher than standard DDR3.

          • Ted Summers

            It turns out that the PS4 will use 3.5GB for the OS, at best the PS4 will only have 5.5GB for games. See Gamespot LInk:

            http://www.gamespot.com/shows/gsnews/?event=bioshock-infinite-dlc-ps4-memory-new-xbox-moderation-20130&tag=Topslot;Slot3

        • ant1248

          Those are minimum needed not actually used. HUGE difference. If a game only came in 1080p with 16x anisotropic filtering and 4xaa and… much more ram is required.

          • XFistsClenchedX

            The new Killzone for PS4 uses only 3 GB of RAM. Uncharted 3 runs on 512MB of RAM. RAM is not going to be an issue for years, if ever, for the XBOX One.

          • brianc6234

            Sure it will be. That 8GB isn’t all for games and it’s crappy, slow RAM. If they used GDDR5 RAM it wouldn’t be a problem.

          • pauperszijnkansloos

            Are you retarded? MS has actually MORE bandwith with all its parts combined than the GDDR5 from Sony.

          • extermin8or2

            RAM doesn’t work all parts combined…. ok let me fix some of what I typed before: it’s also dependant on the speed your GPU speed, you don’t want slower main RAM for the graphics than your GPU speed else it’ll sit there doing nothing whilst the ram transfers. The 32mb module of edram will help in the xbox but it’s only really going to be good for small amounts of data, the bulk is going to come through the DDR3 RAM. So the bandwidth is certainly NOT the 200gb/s microsoft are touting not by a long shot lol their in fairyland if they are seriously trying to claim it’s going to be achieving that…

          • FUGLYconsoles

            That’s NO and yes. Let met explain my answer.

            The Xbox One can write more data per second to RAM than Sony with the PS4, but they will have to do that via a more complex method of load balancing. Data requiring fast computations will be put in the eSRAM and slower data will be placed in te DDR3. The 4 Move engines are there for both and getting data from external sources (they are basically very fast and very high bandwith multi-purpose co-processors with cache, a bit like the SPE’s in the Cell).

            They already have an automatic compiler for the Xbox 360 that does this with their eDRAM and DDR3, so it should be there for the Xbox One as well, but it requires more managing of code than the basic structure of the PS4 (but most programmers should be well enough experienced with the 360 by now to do this). Indies did not have access to this through XNA!

            195.6GB/s is still more than 176GB/s, but it requires more work to get there from the ground up. I don’t know where Dan Greenawalt gets the 200GB/s from. The leaked schematic wasn’t clear if each Co-processor would receive 25,6GB/s of bandwith or combined. If they are separated lanes (which some people around me are saying), the Xbox One has a bandwith of 270GB/s and that would make his statement plausible, albeit with a complicated design almost like the PS3.

          • extermin8or2

            so what you are saying is on paper it’s greater, but what it will actually end up as for most 3rd party developers is yet to be determined as we saw with the ps3 when things are complicated few developers spend the time to get the best out of it they can except for 1st party studios (i.e:Naughty Dog) as well time is money after all. I’m surprised after the issues the PS3 had that MS wouldn’t just go for the simplest route possible to get the fastest bandwidth? I mean they saw 1st hand that a console can be capable of stuff but when it becomes complicated for developers todo it what the actuall outcome is isn’t what’s on the paper at the start. Besides all this is all pretty irrelevant if as it appears the ps4 has a GPU with double the shaders ignoring MS’s cloud claims which seem pretty fanciful-ths ps4 should have a performance edge helped by the ease of getting data places fast?

          • John

            MS didn’t go for the simplest route because they need those 4 cores for distributed computing (though developers can choose what to do with them, but in essence they are there to each talk to another VM). It was never going to be simple for them and the 4 cores can be used for graphics as well (just like FUGLYconsoles says, they are very much in the same vein as Sony’s Cell SPEs). The PS4 will not be able to mimmick that with their standard off-the shelf parts even if they have 33% more shaders.

          • Dakan45

            You bet too much on GDDR5, “crappy slow ram”

            For what? DDR3 is faster for cpu calcualations, GDDR5 is for graphics.

            Considering shadowfall uses 1.5gb for cpu, id say you are wrong.

          • Dissimulus Umbriel

            FYI, DDR3 has lower latency than GDDR5. That is, it’s actually the FASTER of those two. What GDDR5 has is bigger bandwidth. Check your facts before posting.

          • extermin8or2

            yeah but they’ve been heavily optimised…. the guy does state that this is a small indie team, so having the greater amount of high speed RAM allows them to not have to worry so much about making all the code as concise as possible. The big developers will still bother and spend the time and their games will show for it but small developers that can’t afford to necessarily- won’t be locked out from developing for the system.

          • Grant Abbott

            If anything it’s telling me that the PS4 is going to have a bunch of easy PC ports at the beginning such as the Witness.

          • Dakan45

            3gb for v ram and 1.5gb for cpu and some shared to a total of 4.7gb.

          • ant1248

            Killzone only used 3-4 Gb because they were told (like everyone) that the ps4 only had 4gb total. Who says they don’t want another 4gb to use?

        • Raf1k1

          You need to remember that on PC not everyone has more than 2GB of ram so devs have to try and limit the amount their games need.

          On a console like the Xbox One the RAM is the same on each one. This means devs can go ahead and make use of that extra resource without having to worry about whether it’ll work.

          Now that the Xbox One will have Blu-ray as standard you can expect the amount of storage space games require to shoot up too. While devs will be focusing more on optimisation later in the new generation once they reach that performance ceiling, right now they’re simply making the most of the resources they have.

          • Dakan45

            I hope you reallize that VRAM and ram is not the same thing.

        • Michael

          Try modding Skyrim and it will require a lot more than 2GB. The reason why you can run it with just 2GB is because the texture maps are very, very low-res. Install a single texture pack and you’ll need a video card with 3GB to run it smoothly and not have to store data in your system RAM. Install a few other mods and that will go up even further.

          Then take into account that next-gen games will be dealing with many, many more polygons per object and textures of much higher resolution, and 8GB starts sounding like a very small amount.

          There is a reason why we’re seeing the best-looking games for the PS3 come out so late in its life cycle, you know. Uncharted 3, The Last of Us etc. – these games could not have been made four or five years ago, because the developers hadn’t yet figure out how to push the PS3 to its limit.

        • Morris Buel

          This once again shows how PC games are not being optimized for _REAL_ next gen. They have low RAM targets to shoot for the least common denominator and bring in the most money.

          that least common denominator has been above last gen, (360 and PS3) it’s not even close to next gen. You’d have to have 16 GB of system memory and a 4 GB video card to come CLOSE to playing a game like Killzone Shadow Fall or Titan Fall with the same level of detail as the console.

          FURTHER; The PS4 uses a unified memory architecture and doesn’t have to deal with Windows bloat. It won’t need as much RAM, because it won’t have to duplicate itself across your system RAM and GPU RAM. They can use the same pointers.

    • Martin Brentnall

      The Witness is also supposed to be coming to iOS… I wonder how Jonathan Blow is planning to make the game work in only 1GB RAM that the current iPhone and iPad have.

    • gamerguy

      And you know because you know the details of ALL game development?! Retard!

    • Morris Buel

      Not for the render distances he’s shooting for. Could it be optimized? probably. he’s going to have to shrink it down for mobile.

  • Nintendo Fan 4 Lif3

    he makes his point very clear..if 8GB is a mere minimum then how much can a modern very high end PC hold? Like 20 or 30 GB at most possibly?

    • http://www.therealgamers.net/ Matt Clarmont

      Have they already progressed that far? I haven’t followed PC specs in awhile. I just keep my own running as best I can. I figured we were only at 16gb max or MAYBE 32gb for extremely high end PCs.

      • Nintendo Fan 4 Lif3

        Yeah cuz at last year’s E3 Square Enix said that the demo for the Final Fantasy tech demo running on their Luminous Studio engine ran on a high end PC with 20 GB RAM so I imagine that it’s a little bit higher by now given how fast PC had been advancing this console generation

        • extermin8or2

          yeah but how affordable is that really for the normal consumer… besides that will be unoptimised code, when they release a game using that engine it’d use much less most certainly they’ll be able to fit it into the 7gb of usable GDDR5…

          • Grant Abbott

            16 Gigs cost less than 100 bucks for me. Granted it’s DDR3. BTW DDR5 doesn’t exist, you are talking about GDDR5 which is slightly faster than DDR3.

          • extermin8or2

            yes I meant GDDR5- DDR5 does exist I believe it’s just not commercially available :P and it’s not just the cost of the RAM you need a system that can actually use it :p

          • FUGLYconsoles

            No, DDR5 does NOT exist. DDR4 specs are at JEDEC and will release at the end of this year and possibly even next year. DDR3 suffices for PC use for the moment as the clock speeds keep going up. They will work at DDR5 after release of DDR4. GDDR5, like GDDR4 is a stacked variation of DDR3.

          • Dakan45

            Dont forget DDR is better for cpu while GDDR is for graphics.

          • Grant Abbott

            It doesn’t exist as in there is no official hardware standard by that name. Unless there is a Dance Dance Revolution 5 lol.

          • Nintendo Fan 4 Lif3

            so is optimizing the same as compressing so that it doesn’t crash the system or no?

      • pauperszijnkansloos

        My PC from 2009 holds 24GB DDR3-2000.

      • Grant Abbott

        I have 16 GIG and mine is a 2 year file server that I decided to use for gaming.

  • Martin Brentnall

    The Witness was originally announced as a PS4 timed console exclusive. Problem is, Microsoft have policies that require games to be released at the same time on their system as their competitors, so in theory, The Witness will never be coming to the Xbox One unless Microsoft were to make an exception for it.

    I wonder Jonathan ran into this roadblock and got pissed at Microsoft for blocking the release of The Witness on Xbox One?

    • brianc6234

      Microsoft can’t afford that policy anymore. They need all of the help they can get. They hardly have any first party developers anymore.

      • pauperszijnkansloos

        MS has more first parties than Sony. 22 versus 13. They have bought more studios and Sony’s shut many of them down last gen because of financial failure.

        • Martin Brentnall

          Shame Microsoft’s studios aren’t putting as many great games as Sony’s. :)

          • Grant Abbott

            Microsoft games have a higher Meta-Critic Rating than Sony. Actually of the Big 3, Sony has the worse. I remember on the PS2 days, Sony was afraid to even publish some of their crappy games like Ape Escape.

        • extermin8or2

          How many studios you have doesn’t really matter it’s quality vs quantity and I’m not sure if your 13 includes the fact that several of Sony’s now have multiple teams plus the actual Sony studios like sony London, Sony Japan etc.

      • Martin Brentnall

        Microsoft would be wise to revise the policy. Limiting what’s allowed to release on your platform isn’t a policy that’s makes their consoles very attractive to me as a gamer.

  • Paupershoulddie

    That’s some terrible programming if an ugly game like that takes 5GB. Jonathan Blows alrights, out of his ass!

    • kevin carey

      Exactly. Ol’ Blow-hole has had an agenda against MS since shortly after Braid released on XBLA, and hasn’t shut up since. He has ZERO credibility, when it comes to info and/or opinions concerning anything MS related.

      That he’s openly admitting his kiddy arcade game “uses 5GB of RAM”….when Crysis 3, BF3, Metro Last Light….and a ton of other RAM-eating games…did just fine on the 360, only proves what an idiot, and shlt programmer he is.

      • Dakan45

        “just fine on 360″

        Ehmm bf3 runs on low settings on consoles and metro last light and crysis 3 at lower than low settins.

        Current consoles run gamesa at low or mediume settings with barelly 30 fps and 720p.

        Nowhere near the same as pc or next gen consoles quality

        • kevin carey

          Dude…I built my PC rig to play those games as well: i7, 16GB RAM, and MSI 660ti 3GB TwinFrozer…and the differences, considering the HUUUUUGE difference in hardware specs isn’t worth mentioning. We’re talking about RAM here…and compared to modern PCs, the 360 practically has ZERO….yet those games still run “fine”. My point stands. STFU.

          • Dakan45

            Those games run at lower than lowest settings at 1280x720p with no aa, struggling to maintain 30 fps and your pc runs them at very hgh at 1920×1080 at 50-60 fps with aa, yet you say the diffirent isnt worht mentioning.

            YOU ARE BLIND.

            So your point doesnt “stand” for NOTHING.

            Or you gonna argue that bf3 which is confimred to run on low settings on consoles is the same as very high on pc?

            It is worth mentioning that the only thing consoles have that beat pc is streaming, games are designed with small corridors for streaming, those games are not “optimized” for pc harwdare but for consoles, but since pcs are so powerfull, it doesnt matter. however now that games will be made on pc and ported to consoles due to same architecture, you gonna see how optimized games will be on pc.

          • kevin carey

            You obviously struggle with reading comprehension, so I’ll keep this brief. WE’RE TALKING ABOUT RAM HERE. The 360 only has a total of 512mb SHARED, to work with. Those games simply shouldn’t be POSSIBLE on the 360. Try playing a PC game from the last 6 years with only 512mb of RAM. I’ll save you the trouble: IT AIN’T HAPPENIN’.

          • Dakan45

            Another retard. YOU COMPARING DIFFIRENT API, how much does this game use? 5gb, HOW IS THAT POSSIBLE? Because its the same architecture, STOP comparing apples with oranges.

          • kevin carey

            Um…you’re using Blow-hard’s asinine claims about his glorified bloatware to back up your likewise ridiculous comments. Hilarious. But hey, at least you attempted to get back on topic….

          • Dakan45

            bloatware? Sasys someone that uses POS crapboxes.

          • kevin carey

            Yes, bloatware…as in software that unnecessarily hogs resources. Obviously you are tech deficient in more ways than I originally assumed.

          • Dakan45

            Ok then, ill just stick wtih a crapbox with lmited resources for 8 more years with the same graphics, same framerate and subpar resolutions.

            HOORAY.

            No thanks.

          • kevin carey

            That makes as much sense as anything else you’ve posted, so sure….

          • Dakan45

            PERFECT SENSE then.

            PS second son doesnt look “next gen” division and watchdogs look better.

          • usrev

            so what you are saying is, you think you could run battlefield 3 AT ALL with less than a gb of ram? seriously the pc fanboyism is foolish. you probably can’t run BF3 at the lowest resolution and lowest settings with 512mb of memory. are you an idiot or what? no matter how you spin it the 360 did things pc can’t with less.

          • Dakan45

            ARE YOU FUCKING STUPID?

            The pc uses ram for the system, and yeah with a 512mb card and 1gb on top of the 2gb of OS ram, yes you can run bf3, but it wont be pretty.

            Also you comparing diffirent apis and design.

            Let me say it again, you play the game on LOW settnigs. On consoles, no they are not magical crapboxes, you are playing the game on crap settings.

    • gamerguy

      yeah because you can do SOOOOO much better!

  • Mr Marvel

    Clearly TV doesn’t need much RAM. ;)

  • Grant Abbott

    yeah I was disappointed they didn’t put 16 gigs in the X1 since it’s such a multi-App focused console. I’d rather the xbox have a 250 GB harddrive and just double the ram. It could be changed (Microsoft changed the Xbox 360 at the last minute which might have made Gears of War possible and made them number 1 in the US) but it’s pretty hard to change the hardware design to add an additional memory stick. But assuming they will optimize the OS down the line. 5-6 gigs for games will be acceptable even if it’s slower than the PS4′s. If the games are going to use the hard drive exclusively than for X1 (and they have 32 MB of really fast VRam) I say X1 will be ok on most games.

    • extermin8or2

      you wouldn’t rather have a 250gb hdd lol EVERY game has to be installed remember… trust me the bigger the hdd the better for you, you can bet they’ll have a propriety drive to give you more space and not be open about what you can use.

      • Raf1k1

        Yes exactly. And remember that the Xbox One now has Blu-ray too meaning that with the improvements in hardware devs will be able to use higher res textures, better quality sound etc. which will just take up more room.

        Let’s say the average game takes up 10GB of space. 10 games would take up 1/5 of the space on the Xbox One. Now think of just how much of an issue storage space may become if devs start filling up Blu-rays like they did with DVDs. On top of this people will be wanting to store movies and music on the Xbox One too.

        This is why I think a non-upgradeable hard drive is a bad idea.

        • Grant Abbott

          Microsoft said they have external hard drive support. and the reason it’s non-upgradeable is because they have special data on the hard drive they don’t want to be copied outside the factory. But with a little modding it can be done.

      • Grant Abbott

        Actually I would. Microsoft said they are supporting external hard drives. I’d prefer the console to be powerful first and foremost. I can always upgrade hard drives later. While hardcore gamers will use a lot of memory. Most people will only buy a few games a year so 250 Gigs would be acceptable.

    • Martin Brentnall

      It’s worth pointing out that the price difference between 8GB and 16GB RAM is larger than the price difference between 500GB and 250GB HDD. The Xbox One would be more expensive in the configuration that you’re suggesting.

      • Grant Abbott

        Yeah I realize that, but I’m just saying I’d prefer more ram than a bigger hard drive. 8 Gigs of Ram for Consumers is like 50 bucks so I’m sure microsoft can get it dirt cheap. Problem is I doubt their system has support for 2 sticks this late in the game (for The X360 it was easier because switching from 256 to 512 was possible and cheap, they could make 16 gig sticks but it’s a lot harder)

        • Dissimulus Umbriel

          Instead of sticks, I think an embedded system like X1 would have its memory soldered to the motherboard. Would be more stable that way too, since they won’t have to worry about slot defects.

          But yeah, I agree that they’re not likely to change their decision at last minutes.

  • Martin Brentnall

    What’s up with this website and the very obvious pro-Microsoft / anti-Sony comment vote rigging?

    What? … You thought people wouldn’t notice? ;)

  • Dakan45

    “8 gigs isn’t that much. The Witness is 5GB so far, and it is an indie game.”

    THAT is what you should remember that next gen consoles will use alot of RAM like pcs and let me say it again ITS RAM NOT JUST VRAM.

    “He does makes a lot of sense when you think about it. Killzone: Shadow Fall, for example, used only 3GB RAM when it was showed at the PS4 reveal conference.”

    It used 3gb for video, 1.5gb for cpu and some shared to a totaly of 4.7gb. Also that was a streaming resources corridor fps, not an open world game. It intentionally used less resoruces by recycling resources and deleting then when not needed like most games do right now.

    So dont expect all that ram to give you super duper graphics, its gonna be used alot just like in pcs.

  • serialgamehar

    Who the fuck is this Blow? Seriously, the guy makes iphone games. Big fucken deal. I’ll take what he thinks into consideration when he makes a real game.

    This guy should go a blow a turd.

    • rem234

      Seems he has a little vendetta to pull of. And from what ive seen of the witness, it should not nearly take so much ram, If it does something is seriously wrong.

    • pontifexa

      Which iPhone games would that be?

  • Holyfire

    Having more RAM makes it easy to make better games eh?? why did Crysis 3 get passed by the way side, BOps2 is fairly trite (I own but don’t play), NFS games are generic as can be. Most top end franchises these days are failing. By contrast Minecraft running on abysmal RAM is a world class success, The Last Of Us PS3 running on 512 MB of RAM ranked 10 out of 10.
    Devs get ur heads straight, games need intelligent design not necessarily more processing power.

    • Juggar Rugger

      I think the point was a developer can spend less time optimising a game if there is more ram to play with.

      • heavenshitman1

        That is true, and developing will always be more efficient, but its mostly moot. Cause the bottom line is games will take longer, cost more and have higher stakes. Its all an unhealthy scenario. Dev companies have been dropping like flies. Its only gonna get worse

  • John Mumpitz

    Games ONLY ON XBOX ONE:

    1. Below
    2. Crimson Dragon
    3. D4
    4. Dead Rising 3
    5. Forza 5
    6. Halo
    7. Killer Instinct
    8. Kinect Sports Rivals
    9. Quantum Break
    10. Rabbids Invasion
    11. Ryse: Son of Rome
    12. Sunset Overdrive
    13. Zumba Party Fitness

    13 Games.

    Games ONLY ON PS4:

    1. Deep Down
    2. DriveClub
    3. Infamous: Second Son
    4. Killzone: Shadow Fall
    5. Knack
    6. The Order: 1866

    6 Games.

    When it comes to games: XBOX ONE beats the shit out of PS4. So you said Ps4 is about games? Where are the games then? haha

    • Orlɛanž

      Quality > Quantity

  • Bill E Weaver

    He’s using 5gb of ram, and his game looks like that, HAHAAHAA! Killzone uses 3gb of ram and looks a million times better. He just lost any credibility he had, 5gb for a cartoony puzzle game, hahahaa, what a joker! This is the same guy claiming that cloud is a gimmick, mean while NASA is showcasing 35 million light years and asteroids in real time on XB1 using cloud support. Sounds like he’s sleeping with Sony.

    • Orlɛanž

      “NASA is showcasing 35 million light years and asteroids in real time on XB1 using cloud support.”

      I can do that now with a 2GB PC. It doesn’t take that much power to simulate “Space”, because Space is virtually empty. And 35 million light years – in the virtual/digital world – is literally nothing but empty , therefore, polygon-less.
      You’ve been fooled, just like the millions of other masses.

  • slims_post

    If a game like The Witness needs 5 GBs of GDDR5 RAM then Blow is a shit programmer, yeah Braid was a good game and well designed as far as gameplay was concerned but it didn’t exactly set him apart from the rest as a top programmer.

    To me The Witness looks like a Nonlinear Myst clone with high res but less interesting landscapes, I’m not someone who wants to see the same tired old franchises rehashed over and over but I’d rather have seen Braid 2 than this.

    Blow obviously has some beef with MS, he rather laughably dissed their 300k server claims then asked for somone else to call them out on it for him as he obviously had no proof and was presumably just hoping that he was right and that someone would be able to prove it for him? sounds like a dumb way to make an accusation to me he should put up or shut up.

  • Mark Johnson

    According to Mr Blow, his game will eat up large portions of consoles systems but because X! is rolling DDR3 instead of 5, its not longer powerful enough to run his game? Granted there arent a ton of details but as far as i can tell with these console architectures, he is making a big deal out a relatively moot point. Am I mistaken? I just get the feeling this guy has a personal grudge against MS and is talking shit to try to fix his vendetta.

  • roozbeh

    i wonder how he feels now that the ram amount of the ps4 has been confirmed to be the same as xbox one