Some Games Could be 60fps on PS4 and 30fps on Xbox One – Jonathon Blow

Jonathon Blow, creator of the timed exclusive PS4 game, The Witness, has said some interesting things about the next gen consoles.

He believes that the PS4 could hold a significant power advantage over the Xbox One, and Sony’s development tools are much better than Microsoft’s at this stage.

This should be a surprise since Microsoft has been always known for great development tools. It looks like Sony has really planned well this time around, since the PS4 was in development since 2008.

“I think the RAM helps a lot but there are other important hardware+system things happening,” blow tweeted. “But you might also get a scenario where games run at 60 on one machine, 30 on the other…”

Check out his comments below.

jonathon blow

 

Third-party multiplatform games will probably be on par next-gen because the game publishers have to maintain parity, and it will be similar to this generation where the lowest common denominator will be used as a base to create games.

The power of a system will mostly be showcased only through first-party games which both these consoles will have. For multiplatform, though it would be unwise to expect one version to run significantly better than the other.

Source – Twitter.

  • val

    Devs are getting 16 times as much memory to work with so 60fps and 1080p should be standard for all games on these consoles otherwise what’s the improvement over the last generation? 4k resolution is even possible. 720p and 30fps are really not good enough for competitive gaming. It would be good if like PC they will offer you a choice between best performance or best graphics. I’m not sure why they can’t do that on current consoles though and maybe the same reason will apply for the new ones.

    • Vulcanproject

      You want to effectively double the framerate and double the resolution in one swoop, well that’s 4 times the performance used up right there before you get on into advanced effects you would also expect no doubt.

      Xbox one’s GPU is maybe 5-6 times faster than Xenos in 360, no matter what Microsoft say it isn’t 10 times faster than 360. Not even PS4 has 10 times faster silicon than 360. Its still only roughly a Radeon 7850, you have to remember that a 7970ghz is MORE than 50 percent faster than that again!!!!

      PS4 games are likely going to aim for 1080/30 in the vast majority, and Xbox one 720/30.

      We’ll no doubt also see all sorts of different native resolutions beyond this, exactly how we did with PS3/360. So maybe PS4 will do some 1600 x 900 etc

      Frankly that’s fine by me. If the lowest resolution game could be 1600 x 900 on PS4, that’s a massive boost over the low rez games on PS3/360 (Alan Wake a pitiful 960 x 540, COD games mostly 1024 x 600) . With good scaling it will be very close to 1080p, much harder to tell the difference on a 1080p HDTV from the sofa.

    • Dakan45

      The hyped idiot is strong on this one.

    • Russell Gorall

      I had a laugh at the “4k resolution is even possible”.

      Yeah, if you want 30fps and are running no AI, no sound and never leave a room in the game.

    • Dmitrij

      I don’t want to disappoint you guys but when trying to connect my new Alienware laptop to my TV I found out that HDMI 1.4 protocol we all love and use is limited to 30 fps when it comes to 1080p. So to enjoy 1080p 60 fps you need not only new generation of consoles but also a new generation of TVs with new HDMI ports.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000553061212 Adam Xen

    I think it’s more likely that some games are 720p on Xbox One, and 1080p on PS4. I wouldn’t be surprised if this were the case for Battlefield 4, for example. It’s ridiculously hard for devs to maintain a 60fps target in a game, regardless of how powerful a machine is.

    • SONY

      You need to repent and be baptized in Sony’s church, and to become our marketing sheep on N4G. We need to hate our direct competitor for taking our pie. Blame Kinect for ‘spying’ or create anti-gamer sentiments to scare people away from Xbox. Don’t be scared to become a radical, we MUST win.

      SONY
      make.believe

      • http://www.facebook.com/jeremy.spillen Jeremy Spillen

        Wow, your reverse psychology is really working on me. I’m almost tempted to swallow that heaping bowl of s**t that Microsoft is putting out there.

        The xbox one does require that a camera and microphone be on at all time. The reveal of xbox one did focus almost entirely on tv entertainment and not gaming.
        This is a cause for concern amongst consumers, to turn your back on the info provided so far is ignorant. Well, actually it’s the definition of fan-boyism.

        • SONY

          In a nutshell, fanboys are made of overly-sensitive organs who allergic to negative facts that against their idol.

          General symptoms:

          - Insecurity
          - Phantom anger
          - Sleeping disorder
          - Diarrhea
          - Itchiness around, but not limited to, hair and butt.

          So if you’d like to see the PS4 winning, then go ahead and start typing the usual “Day 1 buy for me” comments to create a perception of high demand. Comments section is our best marketing tool, so why spend tons of money on Ads? We at Sony believe that the sheep squad will voluntarily do the marketing for us.

          Also, start making more articles with tactical questions (e.g: 399 reasons why the Playstation® 4 will rule the competition) or controlled questions (e.g: Why DDR5 RAM in the PS4 is key to win the next generation war?)

          4 > 1

          SONY
          Make.Believe

          • Russell Gorall

            We all understand the sarcasm, yet what is looking great for Xbox One as a gaming console?

            This is getting old and I can’t believe how many people Microsoft are putting out in forums as damage control.

            Happy gaming!

          • Axe99

            Haha, they are indeed, and you’ve got to be the strongest, most consistent example I’ve seen of one in a little while ;).

  • JAFFMAN

    Sony learned a hard lesson last Gen regarding game development!

    Microsoft learned nothing other than ways to squeeze cash out of its loyal fanbase!

    • Guy Parris

      so true man! but because your telling the truth you will get called a fan boy!.

  • CommonSense

    I wish everyone would just STFU! Does no one remember the statement that it was a hardware and platform reveal and that E3 is the place where all the Game announcements will come!!! Both machines look great to me, I will most likely by both. Like this generation I played my 360 85% more often than PS3 (Which pretty much was my Blu-ray player) except for Sony’s exceptional First Party titles!! Just hold judgement til E3 please!

    • Russell Gorall

      “Just wait til E3!” – Microsoft 2010 to 2013

  • http://www.facebook.com/ana.helusic Ana Helušić

    Trashbox lost

  • http://twitter.com/RiseUp44 J. Nally

    I called it and new Microsoft would drop the ball with its initial Showing of their new hardware. Fanboys will use the excuse that they made the statement saying it was a hardware reveal bla bla bla well then why did they show even 2 games at all if it was just a hardware reveal?? Its BS and if it was Sony that dropped the ball you would be all over it. Now I was really hoping that Microsoft would show something that made me very excited because I really enjoy the exclusives that each platform brings to the table but now that they did such a terrible job at the unveiling I really won’t be upset if I don’t get an XBone at launch. I do on the other hand plan to Pre-Order PS4 the day it goes up for Pre-Order at GameStop because they made the extra effort to speak to the gamers about what we care about – The Games..

  • Bit**Pleaz

    @JNally Of course they showed a few games to omit that would be suicide! All I am saying is wait for E3 and in the mean time it’s OK to take Sony’s D1*k out your mouth!

  • Mitchings

    Sony have outplayed them on a technical level..

    Sony bet on GDDR5 early at just 2GB, then the density increased to allow 4GB and finally 8GB at the last minute. It was risky but they got there.

    MS bet on 8GB of DDR3 from the beginning to allow for multitasking, however, to speed up that ram it seems they have used 32MB of ESRAM as a band-aid; also, in addition to that they’ve added Data Move Engines for other reasons.

    That ESRAM however has likely used around 1.6 Billion Transistors on the SoC, leaving room for only 12 Compute Units on the GPU; whereas Sony have the room and thermal budget for 18 Compute Units.

    PS4′s transistor count and space used is almost certainly smaller than XBONE’s, but is considerably more powerful on the GPU end. Sony made a bet and they won.

    Sony are likely using 3.2 to 3.8 Billion Transistors for PS4, while Microsoft are likely using 4.2 to 4.8 Billion Transistors.

    The exact clock speed of the CPU in both systems isn’t confirmed, nor are the compute and fill-rate capabilities of the Xbox One.

    But according to released info, seemingly reliable rumours and some calculations based on both, this is where we currently stand:

    Xbox One:
    CPU: 8-Core x86-64 @ 1.6GHz (?)
    GPU: 12-CU / 16-ROP / 2×2-ACE @ 800MHz
    RAM: 8GB DDR3-2166 UMA + 32MB T6-ESRAM

    PS4:
    CPU: 8-Core x86-64 @ 1.6GHz (?)
    GPU: 18-CU / 32-ROP / 8×8-ACE @ 800MHz
    RAM: 8GB GDDR5-5500 UMA (as Unified Address Space)

    Xbox One Advantages:
    Errm..

    PS4 Advantages:
    50% Increase in GPU Power.
    100% Increase in GPU Fillrate.
    800% Increase in GPGPU (Compute) Granularity.
    RAM is simpler, faster and acts as a unified adress space.

    PS3 was a bit more powerful than the 360, the PS4 will be considerably more powerful than the Xbox One. And this time it’s not in an exotic way, it’s easily accessible.

    Architecturally they’re very similar, but don’t let that fool you. As the facts stand there’s a considerable gap.

    Of course, multiplats will be developed roughly the same in most cases (to the lowest common denominator) with PS4 likely having a somewhat tighter Performance and Image Quality. But First/Second Party titles from the 2nd generation of games onwards will pull ahead considerably.

    • Vulcanproject

      Sony gambled with the PS3 at design stage, but it didn’t really really pay off. They gambled with the CELL architecture, really they lost because it forced them into a less than optimised CPU and then a weaker GPU with strange memory architecture moved in there last minute.
      Here they gambled on being able to have the memory densities to get at least 4GB, knowing they may end up with less memory than Xbox one.
      In the end it has paid off hugely, its totally paid off. Memory advanced faster than expected, and Sony have the best solution for their memory architecture, and enough of it to match Microsoft’s 8GB.
      Lucky, but Sony win and the consumer wins.

    • Dakan45

      DDR3 is faster for cpu calcualations than GDDR which is for video, might wanna add that to advantages.

      • Russell Gorall

        GDDR5 is built for graphics, which you may want on a gaming console.

      • Mitchings

        Gaming systems are shifting more and more to the GPU (as is evident by the new console specs); so the GPU is the highest priority, especially when going with a UMA which is acting as a Unified Address Space.

        GDDR5 is favourable in this situation.

        Also the latency gaps between good DDR3-2166 & GDDR5-5500 are nowhere near as big and relevant as is often suggested.

        Any disadvantages are more than made up for (indirectly) by the sheer boost in bandwidth and total system efficiency.

        • Dakan45

          You betting too much on GDDR5 higher bandwith.

          If thats so important then pcs will utteraly destroy the so called “next gen” consoles on GDDR6. Which is not far mind you, GDDR5 is from 2008.

          • Mitchings

            I never brought PC’s into this discussion.

            I’m talking purely about how the PS4 and Xbox One compare; and subsequently how DDR3 & GDDR5 compare in a GPU-centric gaming console. In which case GDDR5 is easily the preferable choice.

            And again, in respects to how the two consoles compare technically, I’m not just touting the GDDR5 itself, but the decision to go with it; as this has meant Sony have saved die space on the SoC by not having to use fast, embedded RAM–which has allowed them a 50% bump in GPU power along with various other modifications.

    • Dirty Sanchez

      You know Xbox hasn’t revealed most of their specs yet right. What if the Xbox is running on a 12 gb GDDR5. I have heard rumors about that. And if that’s true That will destroy Playstation 4.

      • Russell Gorall

        They have revealed 8GB of DDR3.

        This happened at their reveal.

      • Mitchings

        MS revealed they’re using 8GB of RAM in the conference and later clarified it to be DDR3.

        Various pieces of info are conclusions derived from existing official info, leaks from legitimate sources and calculations based on both.

        I do disclaim that the CPU Clock Speed on both systems isn’t absolutely confirmed and that Xbox One’s compute/fillr-rate are not absolute at this point.

        Regarding the ’12GB’ figure, you’re spreading shit.

        Also, 12GB of GDDR5 really would be useless as even GDDR5′s bandwidth would only be able to saturate half of that RAM per frame at a 30fps frame-rate.

      • James Woods

        And I’ve heard rumors that it’s powered by unicorn farts and fairy dust.

        • Dirty Sanchez

          Yeah! That would Be A cool kinect game that me and your mom could play together.

        • Dakan45

          oh you mean the same rumors that TEH POWER OF DA CORE will destroy xbox360 and pc? Or that ps2 is so powerful that is terrorists got their hands on it, they would make weapons of mass destruction, sony overhypes.

  • Michael Clanton

    This is a stupid article, a developer who is pro sony says this… ok, well just like every gen, there will be developers who say one console is better for whatever reason. He has based this on what? nothing. That is why he said you may see, how about we wait for E3 to see the games, let indie developers say what they want, and see the real powerhouse devs showcase what each system can do.

    • Russell Gorall

      You would be hard pressed to find many smaller developers who aren’t pro-Sony, especially if they have worked with Xbox in the past.

      I think E3 will be all about what GAMES are running moreso than tech aspects. If you think the One console is nearly as powerful as PS4 you may just be thinking with MS goggles.

  • Dakan45

    Thats complete bullocks both consoles are moreo r less the same, there is not a huge gap like people think.

    • Russell Gorall

      There is a difference between DDR3 and Sony’s RAM. The type of RAM Sony is working with is far better with graphics. The PS4 will use about 1 GB on the OS, Xbox One will use 3 GB on the OS.

      Draw your own conclusions.

      • Dakan45

        Is the 3gb and 1gb actually CONFIRMED?

        • I’m not sure about the PS4′s but yes Microsoft confirmed out of the 8 gigs only 5 will be available to games. Seeing how much they’re putting into multi-tasking while the PS4 is focused on gaming it’s no wonder

          • Dakan45

            In that case xbox one is done for.

      • Andon M. Coleman

        Definitely, GDDR5 is great for graphics. It’s lousy for CPU though, as GDDR has higher latency than DDR. Stream processors (GPUs) fetch a lot of data when they start tasks and split them up between thousands of hardware threads. CPUs, on the other hand, constantly switch between completely different tasks in a multi-tasking operating system. Without a lot of cache or significantly higher clockrate on the GDDR memory, this will cause a lot of stalls in CPU heavy applications on the PS4. One sign, I suppose, that Microsoft intends to use those cores to do a a hell of a lot more than play games; the bigger sign is their hypervisor kernel architecture.

        It is interesting that Microsoft chose to embed 32 MiB of eSRAM into their chip when they don’t need an excessively large cache, this is especially troubling when you consider they sacrificed ROP units to make room for the eSRAM on the silicon. The only thing I can think of is that they want what effectively amounts to free MSAA in the Xbox One like they had on the 360. But this is silly, considering how many deferred shading graphics engines there are these days — shader-based AA is in much wider use than traditional multi/supersampling.

        Microsoft has a better platform for CPU-heavy applications, but they made many questionable choices that will cause the Xbox One to suffer for GPU-limited software. Most games tend to be GPU-limited, so you can draw your own conclusions :P

        • shogun768

          The 32 MB of cache is to catch up with the performance advantage GDDR5 gives the PS4. Even if it’s effective in that role, the PS4′s graphics engine is more powerful than the X1′s.

          • Jens

            Wrong. At papers, Ps4 GPU is alot faster, Alot.
            But by using a single core with 1.1k steamprocessor compared to Xbox’s 768 with 15 beneficial calculatingclusters, its not even comparable.

            No wonder Xbone is more expensive.

    • Axe99

      C’mon Dakan, check out the Eurogamer breakdown – it looks like the GPU on the PS4 is likely to be 50% more powerful than the one on the XB1. That’s approximately the difference between putting a GTX 470 and a GTX 660 in a PC – it’s hardly the same thing ;). CPU is looking similar, RAM gives the edge (and significantly) to PS4 again. I would expect someone with as much knowledge of hardware not to make silly comments like this ;).

      • Dakan45

        I did, wehre is the DIFFINITE comparison, i did not see both gpu compared side by side. Just speculation.

        Eg we dont know how powerfull the cpu is, just that its 8core.

        • Mitchings

          MS have shared how many operations the GPU can do, when you do the math, Xbox One has 12 Compute Units while PS4 has 18 Compute Units.

          In the highly parallel world of GPU’s; a 50% increase in cores is effectively a 50% increase in processing power.

          • Dakan45

            come on, thats speculation.

            “highly parallel world of GPU’s; a 50% increase in cores is effectively a 50% increase in processing power.”

            Thats like saying nvidia card with more cuda cores are 100% more powerfull.

          • Guy Parris

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpYJfjXnQmc

            take a look. 7850 being the ps4. xbox one being the 7790. the ps4 gpu is somewhere around a 7850 and 7870. in terms of graphics card peformance the xbox one gets hammered by the ps4!

        • Axe99

          Check out the Eurogamer or Anandtech tech breakdowns. MS gave enough away in their post-reveal briefing to sensibly estimate the power of the GPU, and it’s 50% less powerful. Again, are you saying that a GTX 660 is no better than a GTX 470, or did you perhaps gloss over the details? ;)

          • Dakan45

            Its nowhere near as accurate. I was mainly saying that we dont know the cpu power.

            Stil 570 is not far from 470 so i doubthe diffience is taht big. THe idea is that ps4 is 50% more powerfull which is riddiculus. Sure xbox is weaker but 50x less? come on.

            Still xbox has other problems to worry than power.

          • Quppy

            Just fyi, 50% and 50x is not the same thing. 50x means 5000%.

          • Axe99

            There’s a fair difference – it’d be the difference between 30fps and 45fps, if there was a direct relationship between GPU power and fps (which there isn’t, but using this as a simple example). You’re right in that it’s not a clear indicator that it’s overall 50% more powerful – the CPUs are expected to be pretty much the same – but the PS4 looks to have a substantial advantage in GPU and in it’s RAM structure (in that it’s faster, and much simpler than the eSRAM set up and all the move engines in the XB1). Then there’s the XB1 running 2.5 OS at once, giving it a fair bit less RAM free for games. We won’t know the exact relationship between the two anytime soon (if ever), but it is pretty clear that your original point, that they are more or less the same, is not the case.

            Agree the XB1′s got bigger problems ;).

          • Dakan45

            Ok that was clueless.

    • Glen Waldrop

      The Xbox One only has about 60% of the graphics processing power of the PS4.

      While they both use nearly identical architectures, it is like comparing a four door Impala to a Corvette. Same basic parts, not identical.

      • Dakan45

        If the diffirence is 30% i can believe it, but this article is riddiculous, its like saying the ps4 is twice as powerfull as the xbox.

        • Glen Waldrop

          Sony has a tremendous memory bandwidth advantage but MS is using a larger local buffer, this will offset the bandwidth advantage somewhat. The biggest difference is the number of stream processors, the PS4 has 1152, the Xbox has 768. This will be roughly the difference between a Radeon 7770 and a Radeon 7870.

        • Dmitrij

          And again, 50% is not two times as powerful. Two times as powerful would be 100% more. You are not too bright, aren’t you?

          • Dakan45

            The one who is not bright is here is you.

            Ill just leave it at that

  • Dirty Sanchez

    Wow! I can smell the bullshit from all the way to my house. The last time I saw Killzone, and watch dogs the two games were only running 30 fps . So where is he getting facts up his ass. No wonder this guy’s last name is Blow. He blows alot of Ps Moves in his mouth. Playstation is done just like this guy, not even Microsoft wanted to work with this guy.

    • Russell Gorall

      “Not even Microsoft wanted to work with this guy”

      Was that a joke?

    • James Woods

      >”Not even Microsoft wanted to work with this guy.”

      You’re aware that his game is coming to Xbox One, right?

  • rik

    I disagree with all of you fanboys and “gamers”. You are not seing the whole picture! your mind is closed! you need to see the big picture, the future of this! and you dont even give a chance of it! WAIT AND SEE.

  • Louish1982

    I remember a time when multiplatform games didn’t look the same at all across all platform and that wasn’t the end of the whorld…I find unfair to hinder the potential of a console because of the weakness of another one, a rival one on top of that…

  • Hastor

    All he is saying is that it might not be a big disadvantage to the more powerful console, as the same games could come out on both, just run better on one vs the other. I don’t think this is speculation on specific performance of either hardware.